Ian's S3 13b Turbo II Conversion

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ian65
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Re: 1986 Series 3 Elford Turbo

Post by ian65 » Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:44 pm

spirit r wrote:3xfire extinguishers in your garage Ian i have only two :mrgreen:
I've got 4 actually, another one on the other side if the garage..... better safe than sorry, I worked too hard to build the garage to see it burn down.
spirit r wrote:The top Cover Pop up Light on the passenger's side needs a little turn against Clock sign.( anti-clockwise rotation)
Thomas
I shall do it tomorrow, thanks th: ........... gotta love German quality control! :) That's why VAG and BMW set the standard for build quality!
1986 Series 3 13B Turbo II
http://rx7fb.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2400
1992 Peugeot 205 1.9 GTI
1975 Honda SL125 Street Scrambler

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spirit r
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Re: 1986 Series 3 Elford Turbo

Post by spirit r » Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:20 pm

ian65 wrote:That's why VAG and BMW set the standard for build quality!
You would say Audi is the level of Quality!
Thomas 0-0

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ian65
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Re: 1986 Series 3 Elford Turbo

Post by ian65 » Fri Aug 14, 2015 9:16 pm

For the last 20 years I’ve wanted to do a turbo 2 engine swap into a 1st gen RX7 but never had the time, money or facilities available but given that my current 12a engine is now coming to the point where it needs a rebuild I’ve decided to go for it and drop a series 5 turbo 2 13b engine into this car in an effort to improve the grin factor by upping the power a fair bit.
My plan is to prepare everything as much as possible on the bench before doing the actual conversion on the car in an effort to minimise my downtime..... I don’t want the car stuck immobile in my garage for months or years on end and want to keep it on the road until I have everything ready as much as possible to do the swap.
The first thing I needed to do was to send the smoking and worn out Garrett AI Research turbo from my Elford turbo off for repair to enable me to keep using the car while I prep the 13bt engine etc.
At the moment, my car is using a turbo borrowed off Keith but that going to be returned to him after the RetroRides gathering so my sick turbo has now gone to http://www.turborebuild.co.uk/ for a rebuild.... it should be back next week.

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The first thing I needed for a 13BT engine swap is, well, a 13BT engine really so with that in mind I bought this.... a 1990 series 5 turbo 2 cabriolet parts car...

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The seller told me that he had got the engine rebuilt 3000 miles previously as well as adding plenty more new parts... I didn’t have any paperwork for an engine rebuild but all the other new parts were there so things looked hopeful.

My first task was to get the car started to make sure it ran. This was complicated by the fact that it was fitted with a professionally installed alarm/immobiliser but the remote fob was knackered. Every time I connected the battery it armed itself and then activated once I touched anything on the car. The only option was to find and remove the security but as I'm wasn’t at all familiar with FC's and the last thing I wanted to do was cut a crucial wire to the ECU or something, I had to tread very carefully.
Following the wires, I ended up removing the glovebox and found the module. All the wiring had been wrapped in black tape to disguise it as a factory loom and lots of this had to be cut off and peeled away. Eventually I also found 2 relays also wrapped in tape that had broken into the ignition and fuel pump circuits respectively. Crimped these wires together off each relay and hoped that would disable the immobiliser circuit.
I also took out the door pin switches and the siren and hoped that would take care of the alarm.

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Next up, I drained the stale fuel out of the tank, put some fresh unleaded in it then dropped the leading plugs out and squirted a touch of engine oil into each chamber with a syringe.

The moment of truth then arrived and it fired up fine and sounds awesome in my garage..... this video doesn't really capture how good it sounds....

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Next job was to slowly disconnect the loom until I end up with only the bits I needed and then strip the car and pull the engine and the gearbox together so I invested in this...

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Which pulled the lump out just fine...

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The big empty engine bay it came out of...

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These old cabriolets rust like mad......... I suppose not having a proper roof doesn't help

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I pulled the seat belt mounting point out with my bare hands...

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I stripped the rest of the shell, dropped the suspension off it and weighed it in...

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I was then left with a pile of parts which I ebayed....... I might use these wheels one day if I ever get around to doing a FC subframe swap with the front suspension off this car... I quite like them...

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But the main thing was that I was left with this...

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This engine looked huge and as if it would never fit into the Fb’s engine bay but underneath the turbo, heat shields, power steering pump, air con compressor etc is an engine hardly any different in size to the 12a so I set to work stripping off the ancillaries...

First to go was the fan...

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Then the a/c compressor, oil cooler and the power steering pump...

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Then the turbo heat shields, downpipe and oxygen sensor...

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And finally the turbo itself...

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Next jobs are to strip all the emission control stuff off the engine, swap the front cover for a 12a item and swap the sump for one off a GSL-SE so plenty to be getting on with.
My plan is to use the series 5 transmission and clutch so the gearbox will need modifying to bring the gear lever up in the right place inside the car. This will also mean I will need a custom propshaft making up which uses the S5 front yoke and the FB rear flange. As I'm stripping all the emission stuff off the engine I will be able to lose the factory ECU and the electric OMP...

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These OMP's are a bit of a pain in the ass if sticking with the factory ECU when doing an engine swap into a FB. In order to get the engine to use the stock engine mounts in a FB, the front cover need to be swapped and the S5 OMP doesn't then fit but it's not possible to just remove it and fit a 12a mechanical OMP as the ECU will detect that the S5 OMP is missing and will put the engine into limp mode.

This is another reason to lose the factory ECU which is what I'm going to do. I'm going to build a Megasquirt standalone engine management system which will give more flexibility and tune-ability
The build will be a big learning curve hence my plan to continue to run my Elford setup and whilst I build this 13BT conversion on the bench as much as possible.
1986 Series 3 13B Turbo II
http://rx7fb.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2400
1992 Peugeot 205 1.9 GTI
1975 Honda SL125 Street Scrambler

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myatt1972
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Re: 1986 Series 3 Elford Turbo

Post by myatt1972 » Fri Aug 14, 2015 9:43 pm

I'm looking forward to this Ian, thats quite a bit of work you're taking on with the megasquirt as well W(p
Keith...

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DKWW2000
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Re: 1986 Series 3 Elford Turbo

Post by DKWW2000 » Fri Aug 14, 2015 9:49 pm

It is good to see you are using the good old tried & tested 7 Ps principle :) .
I look forward to following this build & believe it is a very sensible decision to ditch ECU, the less electronics you have the better g-l
RX7 FB S3 - RX7 FC TII Vert
Rotaries Previously Owned:-
2 x NSU Ro 80s - 2 x S2 RX7s - Suzuki RE 5 - DKW(Hercules) W2000 - Norton (Krauser) Commander

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ian65
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Re: 1986 Series 3 Elford Turbo

Post by ian65 » Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:07 pm

myatt1972 wrote:I'm looking forward to this Ian, thats quite a bit of work you're taking on with the megasquirt as well W(p
I'm still not 100% decided on using the Megasquirt.... I might go for a Microtech or some other stand alone...... lots to consider.... I'm definitely ditching the factory ECU though.
1986 Series 3 13B Turbo II
http://rx7fb.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2400
1992 Peugeot 205 1.9 GTI
1975 Honda SL125 Street Scrambler

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spirit r
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Re: 1986 Series 3 Elford Turbo

Post by spirit r » Sat Aug 15, 2015 6:53 am

Interesting to follow your work cause your way to explain and accompany with high quality pictures is very helpful for me.
All i know is the complex of steering the omp turbo compatible. The mechanical omp would not work perfect.
Do you mod your engine bonnet or your intercooler for the swap Ian?
Thomas

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ian65
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Re: 1986 Series 3 Elford Turbo

Post by ian65 » Sat Aug 15, 2015 7:08 am

I'm going to use a front mounted, air cooled intercooler Thomas, only because I prefer the cleaner look of the engine without the top mounted IC.
The OMP is a bit of a challenge, making an actuator rod to operate the pump from the throttle body..... alternatively, I could lose the OMP and just premix
1986 Series 3 13B Turbo II
http://rx7fb.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2400
1992 Peugeot 205 1.9 GTI
1975 Honda SL125 Street Scrambler

spoddy
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Location: N.Ireland

Re: 1986 Series 3 Elford Turbo

Post by spoddy » Sat Aug 15, 2015 2:20 pm

wow that's fantastic work ian. i really enjoy reading how you guys can do all this work and modding your fb's.
engine sounded great too and running really well, you might need to bring some extra undies when you get it all put into the fb and take her up the road. :lol:

very tidy workshop/garage you have. that car lift and engine lift are very handy to have, but you were brave to lift that car up, those fc soft tops really rot underneath, if only people stuck waste oil underneath and inside the panels, would help keep the rust away for longer.

RamoNZ
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Re: 1986 Series 3 Elford Turbo

Post by RamoNZ » Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:55 pm

Well done on taking the leap.

It's clear that this modification is as much to enable the car to live on in a cost effective way as it is to increase the fun element. 12a parts, especially housings are now becoming exceeding rare and expensive.

I would also loosely class this as a period correct enhancement. The GSLSE as we know what an injected 13b and the Savanna GT was an injected turbo 12a. This is basically a combination of the best bits of those ;)

Regards the point about sealing front covers, I can assure you there is no problem. These have been swapped many many countless times over the last decades - the main oil hole does indeed line up. Would be worth clarifying what your builder was referring to.

Micro tech vs. Megasquirt for me is Megaquirt as the clear winner. Micro techs claim to fame is its drag racing fraternity support. Just like many other things that excel on the track - slick tyres, peaky turbos/cams/porting, hard as nails Apex seals, dog box transmissions etc - road use isn't really a key goal.

Megasquirt has great features like auto 02 feedback correction and the ability to simply copy and paste or import maps which microtech lacks.
Series 3 13b EGi 6 port, Tender Blue
Series 2 12a stock, Silver
Series 1 RX2 12a, Herschel Orange

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